Mar 12, 2026

Imperial Depths

Mark Letteney and Matthew Larsen on the Roman Prison System

Hosted by Elizabeth Ferry and John Plotz

Summary

The notion of abolishing prisons strikes some as an impossible dream: could we could reasonably conceive of a society that responded to harm without the possibility of long-term confinement in purpose-built institutions? To others, we already have a template. Didn’t Michel Foucault long ago show us that prisons as they exist now–in all their horror, in all their commitment not just to jail people before trial but also to imprison them afterwards–come about only in the modern episteme, concomitant with capitalism and all sorts of attendant evils?

Actually, nope. Prisons are as old as the Romans and very likely much older than that. In Ancient Mediterranean Incarceration (California, 2025). Mark Letteney (a U Washington historian who wrote The Christianization of Knowledge in Late Antiquity)directs excavations in a legionary amphitheater) and Matthew Larsen (University of Copenhagen, author of Gospels before the Book) document an ancient and durable prison system system with five key features: Centrality, surveillance, separation depth, and punitive variability.

Their RTB conversation explores key aspects of that system and its present-day legacy or parallels. Yet it ends on a note of cautious optimism from Letteney: just because we don’t find a prison-free world in ancient Rome is no reason to give up the struggle. Whatever better solution to societal safety and rehabilitation awaits us in the future, it must be something we ourselves set out to build anew.

Mentioned

Michel Foucault’s foundational Discipline and Punish (1975)
Adam Gopknik reviews Ancient Mediterranean Incarceration in The New Yorker
The Rules of Ulpian (3rd century jurist)
Wengrow and Graeber’s foundational and heavily debated The Dawn of Everything (2021)
Spencer Weinreich’s work on solitary confinement)
Erving Goffman Stigma (1963) and Asylums (1961)
Livy (eg in his History of Rome on prisons and prisoners
Who Would Believe a Prisoner? Edited by Michelle Daniel Jones and Elizabeth Angeline Nelson
Libanius (on the abuse of Prisoners)
Fyodor Dostoyevsky. The House of the Dead
Samuel Delany Tales of Neveryon

Read transcript here

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Elizabeth Ferry and John Plotz

Free-ranging discussion of books from the past that cast a sideways light on today's world. Recall This Book is hosted by Elizabeth Ferry, Professor of Anthropology at Brandeis University and John Plotz, Barbara Mandel Professor of the Humanities at Brandeis University and co-founder of the Brandeis Educational Justice Initiative.

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