Systems and Cybernetics

Systems and Cybernetics


Interviews with scholars of systems and cybernetics about their new books.

Pete Barbrook-Johnson and Alexandra S. Penn, "Systems Mapping: How to Build and Use Causal Models of Systems" (Palgrave MacMillan, 2022)

January 20, 2024

Systems Mapping

Pete Barbrook-Johnson and Alexandra S. Penn
Hosted by Kevin Lindsay

There is a growing need across social, environmental, and policy challenges for richer, more nuanced, yet actionable and participatory understanding o…

Matthew O. Jackson, "The Human Network: How Your Social Position Determines Your Power, Beliefs, and Behaviors" (Vintage, 2019)

January 5, 2024

The Human Network

Matthew O. Jackson
Hosted by Peter Lorentzen

Social networks existed and shaped our lives long before Silicon Valley startups made them virtual. For over two decades economist Matthew O. Jackson,…

Anthony Hodgson, "Ready for Anything: Designing Resilience for a Transforming World" (Triarchy Press, 2011)

November 3, 2023

Ready for Anything

Anthony Hodgson
Hosted by Kevin Lindsay

Recently I had a chance to sit down for a long overdue chat with Anthony (Tony) Hodgson. When we last spoke it happened to be for my very first episod…

Frank Jacob, "Wallerstein 2.0: Thinking and Applying World-Systems Theory in the 21st Century" (Transcript Publishing, 2022)

August 8, 2023

Wallerstein 2.0

Frank Jacob
Hosted by Caleb Zakarin

Immanuel Wallerstein's world-systems theory can help to better understand and describe developments of the 21st century. The contributors of Wallerste…

The Science of Science: A Discussion with Aaron Clauset

July 26, 2023

The Science of Science

Aaron Clauset
Hosted by Daniel Shea

Listen to this interview of Aaron Clauset, Professor of Computer Science at the University of Colorado at Boulder and in the BioFrontiers Institute. A…

Robert Falconer, "The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession" (Great Mystery Press, 2023)

June 23, 2023

The Others Within Us

Robert Falconer
Hosted by Eric LeMay

Today I interview Bob Falconer about his new book, The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession (Great Mystery Pr…

Pamela M. Lee, "Think Tank Aesthetics: Midcentury Modernism, the Cold War, and the Neoliberal Present" (MIT Press, 2020)

May 16, 2023

Think Tank Aesthetics

Pamela M. Lee
Hosted by Piotr Kosicki

In her groundbreaking and timely book Think Tank Aesthetics: Midcentury Modernism, the Cold War, and the Neoliberal Present (MIT Press, 2020), disting…

Control Through Communication: The Rise of System in American Management

April 3, 2023

Control Through Communication

JoAnne Yates
Hosted by Lee Vinsel

JoAnne Yates, Sloan Distinguished Professor of Management, Emerita and Professor of Managerial Communication and Work and Organization Studies at MIT’…

David LePoire, "Time Patterns in Big History: Cycles, Fractals, Waves, Transitions, and Singularities" (2020)

March 22, 2023

Time Patterns in Big History

David LePoire

There is the common saying, “history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.” Are there any discernible patterns in history, and if so, what are t…

What Algorithms Want: Imagination in the Age of Computing

March 2, 2023

What Algorithms Want

Ed Finn
Hosted by MIT Press

In this episode Chris Gondek interviews Ed Finn, author of the new book What Algorithms Want. Tune in for an interesting discussion on algorithm disco…

Bernard D. Geoghegan, "Code: From Information Theory to French Theory" (Duke UP, 2023)

February 25, 2023


Bernard Dionysius Geoghegan

Bernard Dionysius Geoghegan traces the shared intellectual and political history of computer scientists, cyberneticists, anthropologists, linguists, a…

Peter Jones and Kristel van Ael, "Design Journeys Through Complex Systems" (Bis Publishers, 2022)

January 29, 2023

Design Journeys Through Complex Systems

Peter Jones and Kristel van Ael
Hosted by Kevin Lindsay

As I slowly settle into 2023 — reflecting on the blur that was 2022 — I can’t help but think about the complex problems (aka big messes!) we face at e…

Technocracy Now! Part 2: Exploring Technocracy through Cybernetics

October 10, 2022

Technocracy Now! Part 2

Joy Rohde
Hosted by Gordon Katic

On part #2 of Technocracy Now, we tell stories of cybernetic technocracies. First, we hear the story of Charles A. McClelland, a liberal political sc…

Frank Uit de Weerd and Marita Fridjhon, "Systems Inspired Leadership" (CRR Global, 2021)

September 12, 2022

Systems Inspired Leadership

Frank Uit de Weerd and Marita Fridjhon
Hosted by Kevin Lindsay

Listeners who have tuned in to my most recent episodes here on Systems and Cybernetics will be familiar with what seems be a current running theme…

David Ehrlichman, "Impact Networks: Creating Connection, Sparking Collaboration, and Catalyzing Systemic Change" (Berrett-Koehler, 2021)

August 17, 2022

Impact Networks

David Ehrlichman
Hosted by Kevin Lindsay

I recently caught up with the very busy David Erlichman, co-founder and coordinator of the Converge network (, about his fantastic bo…

Carol Sanford, "Indirect Work: A Regenerative Change Theory for Businesses, Communities, Institutions and Humans" (Interoctave, 2022)

July 25, 2022

Indirect Work

Carol Sanford
Hosted by Kevin Lindsay

I recently got a chance to talk to Carol Sanford about her newest book Indirect Work: A Regenerative Change Theory for Businesses, Communities, Instit…

Mark Andrejevic, "Automated Media" (Routledge, 2019)

June 24, 2022

Automated Media

Mark Andrejevic

In this era of pervasive automation, Mark Andrejevic provides an original framework for tracing the logical trajectory of automated media and their so…

Jessica M. Wilson, "Metaphysical Emergence" (Oxford UP, 2021)

May 20, 2022

Metaphysical Emergence

Jessica M. Wilson
Hosted by Carrie Figdor

Is a tree nothing but its material makeup, or does reality include trees above and beyond what they are made of? How about consciousness – nothing but…

Mark Neocleous, "The Politics of Immunity: Security and the Policing of Bodies" (Verso, 2022)

May 12, 2022

The Politics of Immunity

Mark Neocleous
Hosted by Catriona Gold

Our contemporary political condition is obsessed with immunity. The immunity of bodies and the body politic; personal immunity and herd immunity; how …

Lene Andersen, "Metamodernity: Meaning and Hope in a Complex World" (Nordic Bildung, 2019)

April 1, 2022


Lene Andersen
Hosted by Kevin Lindsay

So what is metamodernity you may ask, and what does it have to do with systems thinking and cybernetics? Well, I recently had a chance to find out for…